Zoë Routh Leadership Podcast

Podcasts

 

 

397 Life First: Designing Work and Money to Serve You with Tim Duggan

 
 

Become a Podcast Insider

for subscriber only bonuses including an implementation checklist, discussion questions, water cooler factoids, and special subscriber-only offers.

Join us here: Podcast Insider

We explore the revolutionary idea of designing your work life by starting with what matters most—your life. Zoë shares updates on her Australian Alpine Walking Track adventure, her latest developments with the Power Play game based on her book Power Games, and her new home for content on Substack. Then, we welcome Tim Duggan—award-winning author, media entrepreneur, and columnist for The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.

Tim shares thoughtful insights from his latest book Work Backwards, which challenges conventional notions of success and offers a practical framework for aligning your life, money, and work. He explores emerging work trends including “coffee badging” and “conscious unbossing,” and reflects on how a personal turning point reshaped his entire approach to life and leadership. This conversation is an invitation to pause, reconsider what matters, and take deliberate action toward a more meaningful way of working.

Planet Human

Summary

Zoë shares personal updates:

  • Space Manufacturing & Synthetic Biology – Insights into DARPA’s vision for building infrastructure in space, and how science fiction is becoming science reality.

  • Australian Alpine Walking Track Adventure – Preparation for a physically demanding two-week trek, including early morning training and managing injury.

  • Power Games Kickstarter Launch – Progress on the team-based game exploring shadow archetypes in leadership, launching as part of the Power Games ecosystem. Join the Power Games advance notice here.

  • New Writing Hub on Substack – Migrating content to a more community-focused platform to create space for deeper conversations and reflection.

Thought-Provoking Questions for Leaders, focusing on:

  • What does enough look like in a high-performance work culture?

  • How can leaders support team members in building careers aligned with their values?

  • What systems need to change when we reimagine work-life integration?

  • How do we lead when the future of work is no longer a concept, but a lived reality?

  • What role can we play in normalising non-linear career paths and unconventional success?

Tim Duggan reflects on:

Work is Broken—Now What? – Why many of us feel disillusioned and overextended, and how Work Backwards reframes work to serve life, not consume it.

The Power of Personal Values (MAP Framework) – A practical tool to define Meaning, Anchors (core values), and Priorities as the foundation for intentional leadership.

Generational Shifts in Ambition – How Gen Z is consciously stepping away from traditional career ladders and redefining success on their own terms.

Challenging the Culture of “More” – Why the absence of a personal definition of “enough” fuels overwork, and how to design a healthier alternative.

Life-First Leadership Design – A call to action for leaders to reverse the traditional model of work → money → life, and replace it with life → money → work.

Key Quotes

  • “Our systems of work are built on our values and beliefs. If we want new systems, we must start there.” – Zoë Routh

  • “If we don't answer the question of what is enough, we’ll never get there.” – Tim Duggan

  • “The future of work is personal, messy, and already here.” – Tim Duggan

Questions Explored

  1. What does it mean to “work backwards” and how can we apply it to our lives?

  2. How are Gen Z’s values reshaping the workforce?

  3. What can leaders do to foster trust, meaning, and motivation in the workplace?

  4. How do we define “enough” when it comes to money, time, and success?

Take Action

  1. Reflect on your MAP: Meaning, Anchors (your core values), and Priorities.

  2. Create a backwards budget: How much money do you actually need to live well?

  3. Redefine success: Is it still about more—or is it about enough? Start the conversation in your team.

Tip of the Week

Define your own “enough.” Take time this week to clarify what a well-lived life looks like for you. Then, make one small shift in your work or life to support that vision.

Key Moments 

00:00 Introduction and Weekly Theme

00:23 Planet Human: DARPA's Space Ambitions

01:37 Planet Zoe: Alpine Adventure

02:36 Planet Zoe: Power Games and Substack

04:55 Exploring Life and Work on Our Own Terms

06:47 Interview with Tim Duggan: A Journey of Entrepreneurship

13:46 Tim Duggan's Insights on Modern Work Culture

24:20 Understanding Core Values and Priorities

24:52 Mapping Life and Money

26:05 Defining 'Enough' and Personal Fulfillment

29:46 Balancing Work, Mind, Body, and Relationships

31:37 The Future of Work and Its Challenges

33:27 Global Response to Work Backwards

37:19 Leadership Insights and Personal Tips

41:13 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

About Tim Duggan

Tim Duggan is an optimist who loves thinking about big ideas. He has co-founded several digital media ventures, most notably Junkee Media, one of the leading independent publishers in Australia. He currently writes a weekly column in the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age

His first book, Cult Status, was awarded the Best Entrepreneurship and Small Business Book at the 2021 Australian Business Book Awards, and his second book on creativity, Killer Thinking, was named one of the Best Books of 2022 by Apple Books. Tim’s new book, Work Backwards, explores how anyone can take advantage of a once-in-a-generations opportunity to rethink how and why we work. 

Tim is also the Chair of the Digital Publishers Alliance, an industry body that represents over one hundred and fifty titles from leading independent digital publishers.


Related episodes on Future Trends

85 Leadership expert Zoe Routh talks about the elusive work-life balance

336 Redefining leadership success with author Dan Pontefract

359 The power of fun in leadership with author Dr Mike Rucker

Never miss an episode. Get the BONUS SECRET RECORDING from People Stuff and
all the latest episodes delivered weekly when you subscribe.

About Zoë Routh

Zoë Routh is a leadership futurist, podcaster, and multiple award-winning author. She works with leaders and teams to navigate future horizons. 

She has worked with individuals and teams internationally and in Australia since 1987. From wild Canadian rivers to the Australian Outback, and the Boardroom jungles, Zoë is an adventurist! She facilitates strategy and culture sessions with audacious teams.

Zoë's fourth leadership book, People Stuff - Beyond Personality Problems: An advanced handbook for leadership, won the Book of the Year at the Australian Business Book Awards in 2020. Her fifth book is a near future science fiction dystopian novel, The Olympus Project.

Zoë is the producer of the The Future of Leadership Podcast dedicated to asking “What if…?”  and sharing Big Ideas on the Future of Leadership.

Zoë is an outdoor adventurist and enjoys telemark skiing, has run six marathons, is a one-time belly-dancer, has survived cancer, and loves hiking in the high country. She is married to a gorgeous Aussie and is a self-confessed dark chocolate addict.